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为什么导师和学生抢论文第-作者署名?

2012-09-13 孙尉翔 科学网

    本来,要回答这一问题,解释“第一作者”对于导师和学生分别有何不可出让的益处即可。怎么署名的问题,竟然轮到要“抢”,那都是100%为了功利的理由,与学术研究无关。因为,这件事本不是没有原则可循的事。 最近类似这种“审稿人”、“署名”之类的几个问答,都没有人去谈按照科研的现代伦理的正确做法。我只是为了补充一下,觉得没有帮助可以折叠。科学研究至今仍然主要是一个自治的

    本来,要回答这一问题,解释“第一作者”对于导师和学生分别有何不可出让的益处即可。怎么署名的问题,竟然轮到要“抢”,那都是100%为了功利的理由,与学术研究无关。因为,这件事本不是没有原则可循的事。 最近类似这种“审稿人”、“署名”之类的几个问答,都没有人去谈按照科研的现代伦理的正确做法。我只是为了补充一下,觉得没有帮助可以折叠。科学研究至今仍然主要是一个自治的圈子。学术期刊凡学术问题也由期刊中的学者角色(主编、副主编、当事稿的审稿人、作者和读者)来决定,其余工作人员只负责运营出版。 所以到底该怎么决定署名,取决于学术界。为什么有“第一作者”和“通讯作者”之别不在于谁最受益。第一作者和通讯作者“二元制”的署名惯例是来自于现在PI制的科研模式,也就是一个“导师”(PI)带领一个实验室,里面有博士后、博士生、硕士生、高年级本科生、有的还有秘书、实验员等等。一个实验室无论谁以第一作者发表文章,假如出现错误、剽窃、造假等问题,是整个实验室所有成员蒙羞。这种蒙羞是实实在在的,影响成员日后发展的。也就是说,在PI制的科研模式下,科研活动不再是个人行为。每个成果,除了需要告诉别人主要完成者(第一作者)之外,还需要告诉别人是出自哪个实验室(通讯作者)。——这就是基本的目的。由于这是一个自治的圈子,自由度很高,但至少需要顺利地表明此目的。

    “主要完成者”到底是导师还是博士生,不是一个“见仁见智”的东西。“主要完成者”仅需要是做实验得到实验数据的人,因此绝大多数情况下就是那个学生,哪怕钱是导师给的、仪器是导师买的、idea是导师的、实验计划和任务是导师下达的的、manuscript是导师改、稿是导师投的都好,主要完成者是就是做实验的那个学生。好的学生,可能idea和manuscript都自办了,管得松的课题组可能稿也是学生投的(以导师的名义),反正这其中可变空间就这么大。学界对第一作者这个“主要完成者”的最低和最高期望就是这样。假如有人看到文章里的内容想要找作者咨询请教,找当初做实验的学生是没戏的,因为他很可能毕业走人了,必须找实验室的负责人(导师),所以为什么通讯作者就是导师,导师就是通讯作者。

    也就是说,第一作者和通讯作者之间,不存在贡献大小的问题,通讯作者只要不放第一,放哪儿都不是“完成人”,无论主要还次要;它就是实验室的头儿、boss。中间的第2、3、… N-1个作者,一律是“次要完成人”,不分先后,总之不是主要。这甚至也没必要去比较什么“贡献”。例如有的实验室,仪器操作是管仪器的人做的,计算机模拟是半夜里网管帮忙点“确定”的,挂名理所当然。但是有一点原则是:论文署了的名字都要经过那个人的同意;更严格地说,论文署了你的名字,你就至少要看过这篇论文,同意这篇论文。如果将来这篇论文里有问题,你署了名,说明你当初同意的,现在你也要担责。

    我听说做理论物理的理论部分的,发文章排名不分先后(也许像程cici说的按字母也不定),大致上是因为建模型解方程的事情,跟实验科学不一样,PI制不明显,有点古希腊贤者单打独斗的味道,你写两三个名字,本来圈内就没人区分是“哪个实验室的”,“谁是第一作者”。因此排名不分先后,通讯作者不代表是导师,有通讯作者还是退休的邮箱是yahoo.com的。这完全是由于学界这么看,才这么做。

    期刊是无权无视学界的需求来规定署名原则的。

    PI制的实验室是一个团队。最起码的团队精神都不会支持“争贡献”这种做法存在的。轮到要“抢”第一作者,无论事实上该谁拿,都不光彩。至于“为什么”,——中国的学界是一个畸型的学界,因此中国的学术期刊也是不正常的。 只拿第一作者说事,是完全不理解现代科研活动的人才会做的事;由这种人制定规则来掌控科研人员的肚皮饭碗,结果可想而知。有疑问很应该,觉得很正常就不应该了。

 

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  1. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2013-12-03 urobo

    有道理!
    但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。

    0

  2. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2013-01-29 cpeng99

    认同

    0

  3. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2012-10-28 westjerry

    很好 支持

    0

  4. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2012-09-17 lixin2005021

    说的太对了

    0

  5. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
  6. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=6336, encodeId=07c56336c5, content=有道理! <br> 但是不知道制定政策的人什么时候能看到。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=151, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=57a890787, createdName=urobo, createdTime=Tue Dec 03 19:26:00 CST 2013, time=2013-12-03, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=5420, encodeId=e9df542011, content=认同, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=168, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=f41321917, createdName=cpeng99, createdTime=Tue Jan 29 16:40:00 CST 2013, time=2013-01-29, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4865, encodeId=10604865c1, content=很好 支持, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=127, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=0cb769754, createdName=westjerry, createdTime=Sun Oct 28 19:02:00 CST 2012, time=2012-10-28, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=4755, encodeId=a3c74e55d8, content=说的太对了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=134, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=lixin2005021, createdTime=Mon Sep 17 14:10:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-17, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1543025, encodeId=b983154302584, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=336a46e0263' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#导师#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=62, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46702, encryptionId=336a46e0263, topicName=导师)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=730f13527667, createdName=124987a0m70(暂无昵称), createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1555482, encodeId=3fb11555482ea, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=7e06e96691c' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#署名#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=63, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=79669, encryptionId=7e06e96691c, topicName=署名)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=abe114610650, createdName=skhzy, createdTime=Sat Sep 15 08:05:00 CST 2012, time=2012-09-15, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2012-09-15 skhzy
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