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方舟子发文质疑韩春雨“诺奖级”实验成果,你怎么看?

2016-07-06 白衣客卿 生物谷

说起中国目前最炽手可热的生物科学家,大家脑海里第一个跳出来的名字十有八九是韩春雨,除却研究的重大意义,韩春雨研究环境的简单、经费紧张已成为大家津津乐道的励志典范。但近日,方舟子公开发文对韩春雨的“诺奖级”论文的“实验的可重复性”。 以下为方舟子《河北科技大学韩春雨“诺贝尔奖级”实验的重复性问题》的部分节选: 这几天我陆续收到几家实验室的研究人员的来信,反映重复不出韩春雨论文中最关键的图

说起中国目前最炽手可热的生物科学家,大家脑海里第一个跳出来的名字十有八九是韩春雨,除却研究的重大意义,韩春雨研究环境的简单、经费紧张已成为大家津津乐道的励志典范。但近日,方舟子公开发文对韩春雨的“诺奖级”论文的“实验的可重复性”。

以下为方舟子《河北科技大学韩春雨“诺贝尔奖级”实验的重复性问题》的部分节选:

这几天我陆续收到几家实验室的研究人员的来信,反映重复不出韩春雨论文中最关键的图4结果(切割基因组,T7E1和测序),呼吁我关注一下这事。

有些人已在网上生物专业论坛公开讨论此事,报告他们没法重复该实验,询问有谁重复出来了。目前还未见有人反映重复出了图4结果。有的能够重复论文中的图3结果(FACS和Western Blot),但那有可能是假阳性。

据听报告的人说,韩春雨在北大和遗传所的报告上都强调,他目前的NgAgo是初级版、需要高超的实验技巧、等他推出2.0版和Smart版。这些说法跟他在论文里的描述是矛盾的。因为他描述的只是个并不复杂的转染实验,T7E1和测序也都是现成的技术,并不需要高超的实验技巧,按照其提供的步骤应该是不难被重复出来的。

···

我当然不怕被人肉,也不怕挨骂,所以在此问几个问题:

第一,有没有人重复出了韩春雨论文中的图4结果?有的话跟我说一下。

第二,据称韩春雨在遗传所的报告上说,重复出来和不能重复的比例是1:3,能重复出来的有20家。那么究竟有哪家实验室重复出来了?(指图4结果)这事没必要保密吧。

第三,韩春雨说做这个实验“需要高超的实验技巧”,那么究竟在哪个步骤需要什么样的高超实验技巧?

为什么一个新实验的结果别人都反映重复不出来,原因很多,比如可能是重复出来的都不吭声,重复不出来的实验技术不行,论文中隐瞒了关键的“实验技巧”(这不道德),或者论文报告的结果干脆就是编的(这更不道德)。一个新的科学发现、技术,需要经过别人的重复才得到公认。别人重复不出来,有疑问,是很正常的。

作为首创者应该做的是去消除疑问,而不是攻击、谩骂,否则那更让人怀疑。

重复性=真实性?

方舟子的质疑在网上一石激起千层浪,一些激进的人甚至直接提起了小保方晴子,声称:不能重复,真实性就不能保证!

的确,实验重现性一直是科学家们追求的目标,通常认为只有高重复率的实验才代表着真是的数据,但把重复性直接等同于真实性,答案还有待考证。Science期刊上的《Estimating the reproducibility of psychological science》通讯作者Brian Nosek关于此提出了他的论点。

他首先提到,研究者需要知道有些因素会导致"文章灌水",以至于实验不可重复。一般的"文章灌水"有三种原因,第一是有倾向性地发表支持猜想的数据,第二是只发表有显着统计学意义的数据,第三是研究样本数量不够。这篇发表在《Science》上的研究,还给出了其他原因,即实验样品的差异、实验设定的差异以及实验完成的质量差异等等。

正如世界上没有完全相同的两片树叶一样,实验室样品也不能说完全一样,再加之每个实验室的设备质量、实际使用情况不一,实验室操作人员熟练程度的参差不齐,人员流动过大等等。比如弗吉尼亚大学研究平滑肌细胞的博士后Laura Shankman曾表示,如何整合各种方法本身就是一个项目,在短短一段时间里,数个博士后和研究生离开了她所在的实验室,而留下的人很难确保实验的一致性。所以客观上存在很多影响实验重现性的不可控因素。

然而,对于Brian Nosek等给出的这三种原因(实验样品的差异、实验设定的差异以及实验完成的质量差异),也有人并不十分认同前两者。对于实验完成的质量的问题,也可能存在这样的情况,即重复实验在数据上和原始实验存在显着性差异,很可能是重复实验时候没有处理好或者操作正确。所以,实验重现性不能作为检验实验假说的唯一标准, 但同时,我们也不能忽视实验重现性的作用,我们需要谨慎把握实验真实性和重现率的平衡。

方舟子的质疑:

方舟子质疑的图片3:有人能重复(FACS和Western Blot),但那有可能是假阳性。

Figure 3: NgAgo works as an endonuclease and can cleave DNA targets in vivo.

在图片3中,研究人员在哺乳动物细胞中比较了NgAgo-gDNA系统和Cas9-sgRNA系统的编辑效率,发现NgAgo-gDNA系统让靶基因失活的效率与Cas9-sgRNA系统一样高。利用这种方法,他们还证实对NgAgo而言,单链gDNA的最佳长度是24个核苷酸左右。

方舟子质疑无法重复的图片4

Figure 4: NgAgo can make targeted double-strand breaks in mammalian genome.

图片4中,设计了针对人DYRK1A基因的gDNAs,以及另外的八个不同基因的47条guides,效果均不错,作者还在乳腺癌细胞系MCF-7、人骨髓细胞系K562和HeLa细胞系在内的多种哺乳动物细胞系中测试了NgAgo-gDNA系统,结果发现在所有这些细胞系中,NgAgo都能够高效地诱导DYRK1A基因靶位点发生双链断裂,证明了其广泛的基因组靶向范围。

同时,作者也设计实验证明NgAgo介导的靶DNA切割对这个gDNA每个位置上的单核苷酸错配非常敏感:切割效率下降了73~100%,其中P8~P11位置上发生的单核苷酸错配导致最大的切割效率下降(85~100%),他们还发现任何3个连续位置发生错配会完全破坏这种切割,这些实验初步地证实NgAgo-gDNA系统是高度保真的。

正如知乎上的网友说的那样:科学的可贵之处就在于可以质疑别人的任何成果,任何人都可以质疑你的成果。质疑在科研成长之路上是必不可少的,你对质疑又是怎么看的呢?是垫脚砖还是拦路虎?

想了解此研究,请点解下面链接:

DNA-guided genome editing using the Natronobacterium gregoryi Argonaute

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    2017-03-09 saikp
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    2016-07-08 bshuang
  5. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1735077, encodeId=a1e71e3507718, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=9aa5923e176' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#质疑#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=69, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=92371, encryptionId=9aa5923e176, topicName=质疑)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=2d3033872914, createdName=saikp, createdTime=Thu Mar 09 00:49:00 CST 2017, time=2017-03-09, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1746413, encodeId=45a31e4641356, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=09fd58e8692' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#方舟子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=58786, encryptionId=09fd58e8692, topicName=方舟子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=017535750668, createdName=zhangjiqing, createdTime=Mon Feb 27 12:49:00 CST 2017, time=2017-02-27, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1462283, encodeId=2730146228390, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=5c0c9191e10' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#诺奖#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=0, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=91917, encryptionId=5c0c9191e10, topicName=诺奖)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=395f25, createdName=爆笑小医, createdTime=Fri Jul 08 02:49:00 CST 2016, time=2016-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1550910, encodeId=c9251550910cf, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=662810003e92' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#韩春雨#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=78, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=100037, encryptionId=662810003e92, topicName=韩春雨)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=db0a14143395, createdName=bshuang, createdTime=Fri Jul 08 02:49:00 CST 2016, time=2016-07-08, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=92190, encodeId=c4609219045, content=方好久没出来了,一出来就找事, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=122, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=/v1.0.0/img/user_icon.png, createdBy=a37a1710612, createdName=oo902, createdTime=Thu Jul 07 09:11:00 CST 2016, time=2016-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=92176, encodeId=2546921e6ad, content=人怕出名猪怕壮, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=130, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=/v1.0.0/img/user_icon.png, createdBy=d0921674448, createdName=gyczyxy, createdTime=Thu Jul 07 08:37:00 CST 2016, time=2016-07-07, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2016-07-07 oo902

    方好久没出来了,一出来就找事

    0

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    2016-07-07 gyczyxy

    人怕出名猪怕壮

    0

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